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Post by Grave on Jul 28, 2007 12:49:44 GMT -5
Here's the idea:
Give Siege units (catapults, artillery, etc) a certain percent chance to destroy a building in the city they're attacking, per turn.
Example: Artillery has a 15% chance per turn to destroy a building in a city.
Another idea is for Bomber units to have two missions: Conventional "carpet" bombing, which would be the way it is now in Civ 4, and a new "Precision" bombing mission, which lets you target specific categories of buildings within a city.
Example: If you chose to do a Precision strike, a popup window will come up and ask you what category of building you want to attack in the city. These categories could be broken down by Yield/Commerce types (Health, Production, Culture, Science, etc)
Then when you execute the attack, you have a certain percent chance to take out one of the chosen types of building... sort of like the Siege units do... only with Precision Bombing you have somewhat control over what type of building to destroy, versus Siege attacks which are random.
Also to tie into this would be special UN Resolutions, which could bar certain types of buildings from being attacked (Health for example... which woud mean you couldn't target Hospitals, or buildings that produce Health bonus).
If you still chose to deliberately bomb them anyway, you face severe diplomatic penalties, perhaps double what they are normally.
Thoughts?
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Post by Gmatt on Jul 28, 2007 13:03:46 GMT -5
Hmm, it sounds interesting.. I think though that with most buildings, they were spread around the city a lot (Science for example) and hit would be very hard with anything but maybe a Stealth Bomber, to pick and choose. The main thing though that this did work for was industry sections, which are represented by the Industry Park (That is in the regular game right?).
So maybe you get a bonus vs industry buildings if the Industry park is in the city, otherwise it is a small chance that you will hit any of the buildings if you go with Precision Bombing? I know things like a Palace, or huge buildings would be easy to hit, but things like temples, or observatories would not be so... So if we could implement the chance of hitting depending on the size of the building...
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Post by Grave on Jul 28, 2007 13:16:28 GMT -5
Well, Precision Bombing missions could be availiable with the discovery of Laser technology, to represent smart weapons. A smart bomb can hit anything, really... no matter how big or small.
Plus, with this method, we could add Promotions to later Techs that add percent chances of sucessfully hitting a building when using the "Precision Bombing" mission.
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Post by Gmatt on Jul 28, 2007 16:46:16 GMT -5
Ah that makes sense, I always wondered what "Smart Weapons" was in Civ 3. Though I think we should have it in a rudimentary for before, just with laser as you say it would be extremely accurate..
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Post by zebra9 on Jul 31, 2007 9:55:45 GMT -5
Maybe building damage might be a better idea then wipe out. So you would slowly destroy the building and the player would have to devote Hammers to building repare.
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Post by dompedroii on Jul 31, 2007 11:39:55 GMT -5
The problem is that buildings are sort an all-or-nothing deal. You either have it or you don't. Adding some kind of quantitative value to the buildings would be tricky and make things much more complicated.
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Post by Grave on Jul 31, 2007 20:11:20 GMT -5
The problem is that buildings are sort an all-or-nothing deal. You either have it or you don't. Adding some kind of quantitative value to the buildings would be tricky and make things much more complicated. Yeah, i'd have to agree there. If I target a building for a bombing mission, I want to destroy something that round.
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Post by dompedroii on Jul 31, 2007 20:28:08 GMT -5
Unless we allow multiple buildings of a kind in a city... then you might have five factories and it'll take five bombing runs to destroy them.
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Post by Grave on Jul 31, 2007 20:32:02 GMT -5
How would you do that? You mean 5 individual factory building improvements? Wouldn't that unbalance things? Or do you mean... you can assign 5 "points" to an improvement... and each boming mission will knock one point off the building if the attack is successful... then it would take 5 bombing runs to wipe out a factory? I dunno... if I want to cripple a city, I would like to do something impactful that round... because bombers can always be intercepted... so it's still a risky mission. And if it's risky, I want that risk to be worth it if my mission is successful. Know what I mean?
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Post by dompedroii on Jul 31, 2007 21:35:08 GMT -5
How would you do that? You mean 5 individual factory building improvements? Wouldn't that unbalance things? Well, you could look at it as points, but essentially, what you would see is that in the city screen when you look at the list of buildings, youd see something like "Factory (3)" Where 3 represents the number of "factories" in the city. Since it wouldn't make sense for you to have to bomb the city five times to destroy that factory, each "point" would add to the total effectiveness. So instead of a factory giving +50% Production (or whatever it gives), it would give +10% but you'd be able to build 5 factories. It would be a big change to the game to do this... would it be worth it? I don't know since I just made this up now and am just kind of throwing it out there for brainstorming purposes.
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Post by Grave on Aug 1, 2007 22:13:22 GMT -5
It would be a big change to the game to do this... would it be worth it? I don't know since I just made this up now and am just kind of throwing it out there for brainstorming purposes. I mean, I like the idea... but maybe we're getting to complicated with this. I'm a big fan of the "KISS" philosophy... if you know what i mean (and if you don't I'll tell you what that acronym means) Maybe if we just stuck with a "Precision Bombing Mission" (available after you discover Laser, for example) that gives XX% chance to wipe out a user selected building in one turn. And maybe add to the regular bombing mission a XX% chance to destroy a random building in one turn. And... if possible, additional promotions to air units that improve the pecentage of destroying a building. Maybe we could play with this idea first... then if we wanted to do the "point system" we could try that next.
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Post by shiggs713 on Aug 7, 2007 0:46:27 GMT -5
I would at least give regular bombing missions a small chance of destroying buildings, I mean many buildings were destroyed by bombing missions way before smart weapons. You could just limit the missions to the appropriate units..I think that would work fine... no need to over complicate it. Also a few new promotions like you said, would be great.
Oh and while we're here on the air units topic, I'd always wanted to see certain air units able to carry missles. For cripes sake the only nuclear bombs ever deployed was by air, not nuclear sub not icbm, by a bomber and fireaxis goofed but nobody has said a word. Even smaller air to surface missles would be fine.
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Post by Gmatt on Aug 7, 2007 12:22:55 GMT -5
But how would it work? You cannot leave air units out in the middle to unload them like the ships..
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Post by dompedroii on Aug 7, 2007 16:11:01 GMT -5
Oh and while we're here on the air units topic, I'd always wanted to see certain air units able to carry missles. For cripes sake the only nuclear bombs ever deployed was by air, not nuclear sub not icbm, by a bomber and fireaxis goofed but nobody has said a word. Even smaller air to surface missles would be fine. But how would it work? You cannot leave air units out in the middle to unload them like the ships.. The best way is to give a unit a Promotion... let's call it Nuclear Warhead. When the plane makes a successful attack run, the bomb is dropped, nuclear glory ensues, and the promotion is promptly removed. In fact, you could even remove the nuclear ability from ICBMs too... of course, no one would put a conventional warhead in an ICBM since that'd be an absurd waste of money, there's nothing that demands it have a nuclear warhead. So what you do is, you build nuke warhead units that would actually be ground units, and you could have a truck graphic for them or something, and you could even airlift them to another continent if you want. Then, when you've picked the vehicle of choice... be it a Bomber, Tactile Missile, or ICBM, you will have a little mission button allowing you to load the nuke. Push it and you get a prompt like when you assign a Great General to a unit that lists all of the units that can have a nuke. Pick your choice, the nuke is destroyed and a Nuclear promotion is given to the chosen unit exactly the way a Leader promotion is given to a unit when you consume a GG. And you could also use this to have different kinds of warheads... so you could have Atom Bombs, Hydrogen Bombs, Neutron Bombs, chemical or biological warheads, napalm... etc., etc. You could have a plethora of means to commit some real atrocities!
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Post by shiggs713 on Aug 8, 2007 8:07:20 GMT -5
that would be interesting dompedroii... and I think it would work just fine.
I thought (maybe I'm wrong) that you could assign special cargos to almost any unit and define how much cargo space in it, and it can hold just about anything. With the new tag suicidal, missiles of all types would be a great addition. Think of it like the transport plane from WW2 1939 mod. It is a plane, and its special cargo is infantry. I'm pretty sure it would be simple enough to change the special cargos to a new missile unit type, for say only bombers and fighter/bombers, and give them a decent range... No the missle couldn't unload while in mid flight as you said Gmatt, but you could just give the missile the same range as the bomber it is on perhaps.
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